From phil@hyphen.equinox.gen.nz Wed Feb 8 17:47:08 EDT 1995 Article: 28699 of rec.climbing Xref: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:28699 Path: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!metro!munnari.oz.au!comp.vuw.ac.nz!canterbury.ac.nz!southern.co.nz!equinox.gen.nz!hyphen!phil Subject: Ambiguous calls was Re: things you don't wanna hear Newsgroups: rec.climbing References: <3gb1fn$6m$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> <3ggqa3$luo@csnews.cs.Colorado.EDU> <3gklkq$cpq@slip-1.slip.net> Reply-To: phil@hyphen.equinox.gen.nz Distribution: world Lines: 76 X-Newsreader: TIN [AMIGA 1.3 941220BETA PL0] From: phil@hyphen.equinox.gen.nz (phil stuart-jones) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 17:38:30 +1300 Organization: home Time for a new flam^H^H^H^Hthread... Dave Durkee wrote: > "TAKE!!" > "SLACK!?!?" Where did `take' come from? I hear it in the gym these days quite a lot so I can guess... What is wrong with the good old expressions which were carefully worked out to avoid such ambiguity? Can't some climbers cope with phrases of more than one word?? When safety is on the line, any ambiguity is a bad thing, especially when it might mean the difference between taking rope in and letting it out! The example above is about the worst I can imagine. For those who might be unaware of the options, here are a few examples from reputable(?) sources. Royal Robbins' `Basic Rockcraft' on belay climb belay off climbing rope (short for `up rope') slack (never say `take up slack' when you mean `rope') tension rock Warren Harding's `Downward Bound' outlines the danger of using the wrong word in less-than-perfect acoustic conditions. on belay belay on climbing up rope slack tension falling!!!!! Alan Blackshaw's `Mountaineering' outlines the potential problems, but suggests that consistency is more important than content. runner on (protection has been placed) I'm there (safe) taking in that's me come on (belay on, climb when ready) climbing o.k./aye aye (acknowledges `climbing') slack take in tight rope/pull/hold! twenty (or whatever) feet (amount of rope left to lead out on) I guess the important thing is the difference in the number of syllables involved where there are similar sounding words. When the acoustics are bad, these are the ones I use are; safe on belay climb when [you're] ready climbing up rope that's me slack hold When the acoustics are good I tend to also use calls like `clipped' to tell the belayer to take up any obvious excess slack after clipping a piece of pro, `watch me' when I think things may be a bit marginal, and `not so bloody fast!!!' when I'm getting an express lower-off... :-) Any other feelings about this bit of pedantic waffle? I guess I just don't like the idea of people getting terminally messed up as a result of an accident based on such a genuine and *avoidable* misunderstanding. phil From eboltz@acoustica.mrd.bldrdoc.gov Wed Feb 8 17:49:08 EDT 1995 Article: 28906 of rec.climbing Xref: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:28906 Newsgroups: rec.climbing Path: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!its.csiro.au!mel.dit.csiro.au!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dove.nist.gov!bldrdoc.gov!news From: eboltz@nist.gov (Eric S. Boltz) Subject: Re: Ambiguous calls was Re: things you don't wanna hear Message-ID: Sender: news@bldrdoc.gov Reply-To: eboltz@acoustica.mrd.bldrdoc.gov Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology References: Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 17:58:38 GMT Lines: 30 > What is wrong with the good old expressions which were > carefully worked out to avoid such ambiguity? > Royal Robbins' `Basic Rockcraft' > rope (short for `up rope') > > Warren Harding's `Downward Bound' outlines the danger of using the wrong > word in less-than-perfect acoustic conditions. > up rope > > up rope ETC. At Boulder Falls last summer, A (apparently beginner) belayer dropped his leader almost 100' (didn't die though) when he tooke him off belay. The belayer said he heard the leader say "OFF rope" so he took him off belay. Of course we all know there is no "off rope" command, but it pays to go over your terms ahead of time. I stick with "tension" and "slack". I also make my leader repeat "safe" or "anchored" twice. -E PS: anyone got any good systems for rope-tug communication on windy no line of sight climbs? -- Eric S. Boltz My views, opinions and statements in no way reflect those of the U.S. Gov't, the U.S. Department of Commerce or NIST. From udah289@bay.cc.kcl.ac.uk Fri Feb 17 13:17:52 EDT 1995 Article: 29046 of rec.climbing Xref: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:29046 Path: dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!metro!news.cs.su.oz.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!msunews!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!alder.cc.kcl.ac.uk!udah289 From: udah289@bay.cc.kcl.ac.uk Newsgroups: rec.climbing Subject: Re: Ambiguous calls Message-ID: <1995Feb10.163610.6318@alder.cc.kcl.ac.uk> Date: 10 Feb 95 16:36:10 GMT References: Organization: King's College London Lines: 14 In article , eboltz@nist.gov (Eric S. Boltz) writes: > PS: anyone got any good systems for rope-tug communication on windy > no line of sight climbs? I've found that there is only one really important call - and that's "Climb when you're ready" -because that means that you have gotyour parntner on belay and therefore you are obviously on belay yourself. So I just always use three sharp tugs for "climb when you're ready" - everything else is superflous and may lead to confusion. When you get the three tugs you can take your partner off belay, remove the belay and start climbing. Steve (s.hill@bay.cc.kcl.ac.uk)