From chrish@bdel.com Tue Jul 25 15:58:38 EST 1995 Article: 6041 of rec.climbing Xref: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:6041 Path: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!metro!OzEmail!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!news.oz.net!news.lei.net!coconut!news.interpac.net!xmission!bdel!blkdia!chrish From: Chris Harmston Newsgroups: rec.climbing Subject: Re: Accident at Devils Tower Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 17:51:56 -0600 Organization: Black Diamond Equipment Ltd. Lines: 94 Message-ID: References: <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com> <3te9fq$rip@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blkdia.bdel.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: chrish@blkdia In-Reply-To: <3te9fq$rip@news1.radix.net> I was a witness to this accident. I found the situation very frightening. Not in that the climber fell, but in the reactions of the people around the victim. The following is my account and may not be entirely accurate: July 1, 1995. The first day after the voluntary closure. My partner and I had summited via the McCarthy West Face route and rapped down the Durrance route (what a mistake). I was horrified by the number of people and the unsafe practices I observed. There were easily 50 people on the nearby routes and rap stations. There were people everywhere! We descended as quickly as possible because we did not want to get hurt. We lowered our ropes very slowly and raped down. While this jerk from above was tossing his rope off and rocks with it. This guy was so impatient he actually started to pull our ropes off the station while we were waiting for a person in the way to move. Well she got hit with the rope quite hard. Anyway, we got the hell out of there and went around to get our gear. It was too hot so we went over to the North Face and were about to climb a route when it started to thunder etc. We bailed and walked back around the tower. Just as we were passing the Durrance rap we hear "Rock Rock Rock" from a screaming woman. Then the sound of what I thought was a pack sliding down the face (off the meadows ledge). I looked up to see the victim hit the end of the rope, bounce a few times and go limp. It did not appear too serious at first since the victim was in a sitting position (like he were hanging in a sit and chest harness). From our position on the ground I could tell that he was unconscious and was in need of help. My partner immediately dropped his pack ( he is an EMT and former Yosemite rescue person) and ran up the trail to the base to offer assistance. I grabbed his pack and proceeded to march up to the base as well. When I got there the situation was unchanged and nobody was really doing anything. One party from below was attempting to climb up to the victim, but was unable to proceed quickly. There were three people on the ledge above the victim (some 20 to 30 feet). They were just standing there. Since they were the closest to the victim my partner and I applied allot of pressure to them to get them to rap down to make sure the victim was breathing. It took them about 8 minutes to get to the guy. I was completely amazed at how many people were there that were all totally frozen. No one was moving at all. This was the worst part of the accident to me because it really showed me how many very inexperienced (first aid that is) people there are out there climbing. I was horrified by the actions of so many people. As it turned out there was nothing anybody could have done regardless of how fast someone may have moved. The two possible stories I heard were that the guy was un-anchored and was stepping around someone when he slipped. Somehow he ended up hanging himself in a single fixed line and broke his neck. He fell a full 165'. The other story was that he was trying to pull a stuck rope and when it came free so did he. I suspect that this is the most likely situation. I too was unroped a that belay station because it was so big and no real looseness. However, I was not at the ledge when he fell and can only guess at what happened. I suspect that because of the numbers of people he became distracted and made a mistake. As soon as we all realized that the victim was dead my partner and I left to go down to meet the rangers and relay what we knew. Meanwhile the person that had rapped down got the victim down. I do not know any of these details because we left the scene. Later that night we relayed our story to the rangers. In thinking back to this accident I can't help but lay some of the blame on the June Closure. There were so many people climbing on July 1 that this probably contributed to the situation. I don't know for sure, but this is my feeling. With so many people waiting for the closure to end they jumped at the chance to climb and at least one person made a fatal mistake. There could have been more injuries as well. In talking to the park service the day before, they said that there was about a 90% reduction in the number of climbers in June. I would say that it worked fairly well for a voluntary closure. However, there were still over 120 people that registered in June (my numbers may not be exact). I wonder what the reaction from the Native Americans will be toward the closure and the subsequent accident. I can't help but think that closure is pending. I respect the Indians rights, but I want to experience the tower as well. This is a very magical place. I hope this accident does not contribute to the closure of this exceptional climbing area. The following day we climbed El Matador, Mr. Clean (wow! great route), and the McCarthy North Face. Amazing climbing. But the trip was shot so we came home. Actually we were just no longer motivated to climb and were both suffering from injuries (typical climber things like tendons). I think the tower should be renamed to The Tower of Bomber Stoppers! If I have overgeneralized or seem too harsh toward the other witnesses in regards to helping the victim I apologize, but this was my perception of the events I witnessed. Chris Harmston (chrish@bdel.com) Black Diamond Equipment Ltd. 2084 East 3900 South, SLC, UT 84124 phone: 801-278-5552 DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise indicated, this correspondence is personal opinion and NOT an official statement of Black Diamond Equipment Ltd. From david.newton@symbios.com Tue Jul 25 16:00:11 EST 1995 Article: 5426 of rec.climbing Xref: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:5426 Path: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!its.csiro.au!mel.dit.csiro.au!merlin!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!simtel!uwvax!uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!southwind.net!symbios.com!news From: Dave Newton Newsgroups: rec.climbing Subject: Re: Accident at Devils Tower Date: 10 Jul 1995 15:51:38 GMT Organization: Symbios Logic Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3triaa$b35@jupiter.WichitaKS.HMPD.COM> References: <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com> <3te9fq$rip@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: comgrppc18.ncrmicro.ncr.com A horrible accident, no doubt. My regular climbing partner was there and assisted in lowering the body. Needless to say, very very disturbing. What interests me about this entire scenario is that #1) the climber was unroped, leaping around a few hundred feet in the air, completely endangering himself and his partner and #2) he was endangering everyone below him (my partner included) and had his neck not been attacked to his head would have continued to fall knocking people off all the way down. As morbid as it sounds, having the rope stopping his fall probably saved either a few more lives or at least _serious_ injury. Dave From murray@src.dec.com Tue Jul 25 16:00:29 EST 1995 Article: 5940 of rec.climbing Xref: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:5940 Path: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!mel.dit.csiro.au!merlin!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!src.dec.com!src.dec.com!murray From: murray@src.dec.com (Hal Murray) Newsgroups: rec.climbing Subject: Re: Accident at Devils Tower Date: 15 Jul 1995 03:44:00 GMT Organization: DEC Systems Research Center Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3u7di0$mh8@src-news.pa.dec.com> References: <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com> <3te9fq$rip@news1.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: shuksan.pa.dec.com In article , Chris Harmston writes: [snip] |> There were three people on the ledge above the victim (some 20 to 30 |> feet). They were just standing there. Since they were the closest to |> the victim my partner and I applied allot of pressure to them to get them |> to rap down to make sure the victim was breathing. It took them about 8 |> minutes to get to the guy. I was completely amazed at how many people |> were there that were all totally frozen. No one was moving at all. This |> was the worst part of the accident to me because it really showed me how |> many very inexperienced (first aid that is) people there are out there |> climbing. I was horrified by the actions of so many people. [snip] Rule 0 of rescuing: Don't lose any rescuers. They were probably pretty freaked. Be thankful that they didn't do anything dumb. Thanks for the writeup. From Unknown Tue Jul 25 16:00:38 EST 1995 Article: 5341 of rec.climbing Xref: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:5341 Path: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!metro!inferno.mpx.com.au!news.unimelb.EDU.AU!aggedor.rmit.EDU.AU!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!usenet From: (joel) Newsgroups: rec.climbing Subject: Re: Accident at Devils Tower Date: 6 Jul 1995 16:24:00 GMT Organization: UCLA Lines: 47 Message-ID: <3th2n0$tkf@saba.info.ucla.edu> References: <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.97.161.224 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+ In article <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com>, "gmoore@wyoming.com" says: > >According to the NPS Press Release 7/3/95 > >Climber Loses Life in Fall at Devils Tower > >A Chicago, Illinois climber, Jan Hanacek, lost his life in a climbing >accident on July 1 at Devils Tower National Monument. Hanacek, age 22, >was approximately 400 feet up on the side of the tower in the "Meadows >Area" when the accident occurred. According to witensses, Hanacek was >not tied into a rope at the time of the accident. Witnesses reported >Hanacek slipped off a large ledge and fell approximately 150 feet. >Hanacek's climbing partner, Jan Knizka, was uninjured in the accident. > >Efforts to revive Hanacek by park rangers and EMT's were unsuccessful. >Agencies involved in the extended rescue operation included the >National Park Service, Hulett Emergency Medical Services, Crook County >Sheriff's Department, Wyoming Life Flight from Casper, and numerous >local climbers. > >-End- What's are responsibility as climbers when we see other's doing dangerous things? Last week, at Point Dume, I saw some teen agers top-ropping off three old bolt-hangers, with one piece of webbing to one non-locking biner with the gate facing the rock. To add to the mess, they weren't tying straight the harness, but instead attached (once again) a non-locking oval to the eight knot, and that into their harness. When I made a comment to the more experienced climber about the harness, his response was, "its faster this way." Of course its faster, thats the point, there are also faster ways to get down a rock, but they hurt. I realized that I have no right to tell someone else how to climb, but this incident and others really scare me. It seems that there are many people who aren't taking things seriously. These incidents also give the sport a bad reputation, do they not, to the non-climbing community? Ninety percent of the climbers I have met have been great. They share, they care and they are responsible people. But a few times, I've seen things that scare me, for their sake and my own. So the question is, what do WE do in these situations? What is my RESPONSIBILITY? And,does anyone have any suggestions about how can I go about sharing my concern with other climbers? Thanks, Joel From crsandstrom@mmm.com Tue Jul 25 16:02:24 EST 1995 Article: 5335 of rec.climbing Xref: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:5335 Path: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!metro!OzEmail!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.cfa.org!infoserv.illinois.net!news.wctc.net!spcuna!metro.atlanta.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!news.mr.net!dawn.mmm.com!news From: crsandstrom@mmm.com (Hogsbreath) Newsgroups: rec.climbing Subject: Re: Accident at Devils Tower Date: 6 Jul 1995 19:11:55 GMT Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN 55144-1000 US Lines: 58 Sender: -Not-Authenticated-[4145] Message-ID: <3thchr$hdt@dawn.mmm.com> References: <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com> <3th2n0$tkf@saba.info.ucla.edu> X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0.1b7@hogsbreath.mmm.com Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name. In article <3th2n0$tkf@saba.info.ucla.edu> (joel) writes: > In article <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com>, "gmoore@wyoming.com" says: > > > >According to the NPS Press Release 7/3/95 > > > >Climber Loses Life in Fall at Devils Tower > > > >A Chicago, Illinois climber, Jan Hanacek, lost his life in a climbing > >accident on July 1 at Devils Tower National Monument. Hanacek, age 22, > >was approximately 400 feet up on the side of the tower in the "Meadows > >Area" when the accident occurred. According to witensses, Hanacek was > >not tied into a rope at the time of the accident. Witnesses reported > >Hanacek slipped off a large ledge and fell approximately 150 feet. > >Hanacek's climbing partner, Jan Knizka, was uninjured in the accident. > > My climbing partner was there and helped (a bit) with the rescue. He reported that the climber was near the top of Durrance, at 5.6 it is the one of maybe two easy routes to the top. Allegedly, the climber was waiting at the beginning of pitch 5, a 'straightforward' jump traverse. Reportedly, he became impatient waiting for the party ahead of him and seeing easier 3rd class climbing beyond the jump he went across unroped, landed on the rope pile of the party in front and slipped (and fell:(). This may or may not be wholly true. But a good lesson to consider nonetheless. The fastest way may be the fatalest way (or haste makes waste (of your brains)) > > What's are responsibility as climbers when we see other's doing dangerous > things? Last week, at Point Dume, I saw some (climbers acting ignorant) > his response was, "its faster this > way." Of course its faster, thats the point, there are also faster ways > to get down a rock, but they hurt. > I realized that I have no right to tell someone else how to climb, but > this incident and others really scare me. It seems that there are many > people who aren't taking things seriously. These incidents also give > the sport a bad reputation, do they not, to the non-climbing community? > So the question is, what do WE > do in these situations? What is my RESPONSIBILITY? And,does anyone have > any suggestions about how can I go about sharing my concern with other > climbers? > > Thanks, Joel As fellow climbers and humans you have a right and a responsibility to help (at least nominally) those you see endangering themselves. Yes, often suggestions aren't received (or given) with the utmost of grace, but I believe that one must try. This suggests a new thread: Effective psychology for suggesting improvements to safety practices. or perhaps ethical practices, or musical choices, etc. Chad (still wishing I had been free to go to the Tower last weekend) From richk@Tera.COM Tue Jul 25 16:02:37 EST 1995 Article: 5569 of rec.climbing Xref: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:5569 Path: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!metro!OzEmail!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.cfa.org!infoserv.illinois.net!news.wctc.net!spcuna!metro.atlanta.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!tera.com!tahoma.tera.com!not-for-mail From: richk@Tera.COM (Richard Korry) Newsgroups: rec.climbing Subject: Re: Accident at Devils Tower Date: 7 Jul 1995 11:07:16 -0700 Organization: Tera Computer Company, Seattle, WA Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3tjt4k$3h5@tahoma.tera.com> References: <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com> <3th2n0$tkf@saba.info.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: tahoma.tera.com In article <3th2n0$tkf@saba.info.ucla.edu> (joel) writes: > >What's are responsibility as climbers when we see other's doing dangerous >things? -- When I see someone doing something that I believe might dangerous, I ask them if they mind if I made a suggestion. Generally, people are relieved to have someone to ask questions, get advice, etc.. I think it is all how you come across. If you barge over, accuse them of being dangerous and generally are confrontational, how do you expect someone to react? If they say they aren't interested in my suggestion, then that's fine with me, chances are they won't kill themselves. If they are endangering me (via rock fall, etc.) I ask them to stop endangering me, and leave if they won't stop. Dangerous newbies are another objective hazard like falling seracs and avalanches. richard From QFQS06B@prodigy.com Tue Jul 25 16:03:28 EST 1995 Article: 5200 of rec.climbing Xref: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU rec.climbing:5200 Path: news.nsw.CSIRO.AU!metro!munnari.oz.au!yarrina.connect.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!simtel!news.kei.com!eff!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet From: QFQS06B@prodigy.com (John Bartlett) Newsgroups: rec.climbing Subject: Re: Accident at Devils Tower Date: 8 Jul 1995 13:36:42 GMT Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3tm1la$29e0@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> References: <3te5fa$i61@horn.wyoming.com> <3th2n0$tkf@saba.info.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: inugap3.news.prodigy.com X-Newsreader: Version 1.2 Our responceblity as climbers and My responceblity as an intermediate climber is to at the very least caution those that seem less experienced as our selves and be open to comments from those that are more experienced. Many times I've sugested to a climber that back up should be most important. Or that their way of hooking to the harness should not include quickly connecting through a binner. As many times as an experienced climber noticed something I should have checked first. Just this this thursday at Otter cliffs at Arcadia National Forest, I looped a sling around a rock that looked secure enough. A local climber saw me do this and asked if I really wanted to secure there. I check back on the rock, gave the sling a good jerk and sure enough the rock moved. Guess I shouldn't have taken it for granite. At first I felt awkward at having done something so stupid. Hey we all make mistakes, thats why we all need to listen to anothers warnings and warn those that my have over looked something. John Bartlett@prodigy.com